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Template talk:Mission

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[edit] Categories

It seems like overkill to me to include locational categories rather than just mission area categories.

Ex: I don't see any reason to add mission x to the Concordia category, Wilderness category and Foreas category. I can understand having mission x be in the Missions on Wilderness category, Missions in Foreas category and Missions on Concordia category. Any thoughts? - Snorii 22:57, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

o.o total agreement here, I'm currently working at cleaning up the category nightmare we have going here, but honestly, the root of alot of it are these templates that add missions and locations to everything under the sun...
>.> to that end, the templates layout is great, the programing logic is good.. but they need more switches or if statements, so that the mission or locations are only added to the lowest lvl category for that type. If its in the Wilderness, then we already know what Continent and planet its on..
o_o hopefully these will be fixed be someone who's been programing a bit more recently than I have, or else I'll just go through and try to get the logic to work myself (been staring at it for the last hour trying to get it the way I want it) --Sleepy Kitty 23:05, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Formating/Information for Objectives

What formating should I use for objectives. Right now I'm using * (bullet points) for each objective and I'm listing them as they appear in the mission log window. I've noticed some people are using bold text for each objective.

Originally I was putting explanation in the Objective section under each objective. I've now moved that to the Walkthrough section. Is this the agreed approach? --Thirdpoliceman 21:11, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I've been using the following: 
=== <Objective name> ===
<Possible objective description>
: <Possible objective item count>
It means the shorter objectives are just a header, but that's not really a problem since we don't use TOCs anyhow. I prefer the consistency overall. - Dashiva 03:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Levels

It might be prudent to add a minimum level parameter to the template. Or should we just stick to specifying it in prose? - Dashiva 00:08, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reward items

The reward items are pretty static, which is why we list them. However, we essentially only list the name, which is of limited utility. I think we should either make space for more information (primarily item level, other things like bonuses and armor look are also possible) or just drop the reward item section. I don't think anyone's going to seek out a mission just so they can get a sonic shotgun. - Dashiva 00:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

This just got more critical. As the color of the weapon will have major effects starting soon, we definitely need to specifiy colors if we're not going to reduce the detail level. - Dashiva 03:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm editing this just to get it on recentchanges. Next step is talk page invasion. This needs to be resolved. - Dashiva 00:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the bump. I have both this page and one related mission (Rising Up) linked from my user page and it wasn't enough.
AFAIK each weapon has (from the user perspective):
  • Main modifier (optional)
  • Damage type (optional for physical)
  • Base item type
  • Item level (Level requirements)
  • Quality (Junk, Normal, Modified, Experimental, Prototype, Special?)
  • Modification list (each has name and level) (optional)
Based on the above information we should be able to get/calculate:
  • Damage
  • Melee Damage
  • Icon
  • Optimal Range
  • Ammunition type
  • Skill requirements
This will be hard task for {{Icon/Weapon}} to contain all the parameters and create icon, link and hopefully nice tooltip with details.
There is also the "Big Bertha" chaingun and probably the old "Louise" laser rifle.
Does anyone have any idea how to handle this amount of information?
→ Zarevak 12:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I was wondering if it's possible to have a sort of 'database' page that contains all specific information for weapon and/or armor. Each would have references for level, quality, damage type that could potentially be called from other templates (?). This way, all {{Icon/Weapon}} would have to do is call for the specific data from this main table page. Additionally, other pages could use this as well. Each weapon and armor type could make its own table, calling the main storage page to list specifics about all variants for level, damage type, and quality. That way we can have the information somewhere central and several things can call it without bloating any one specific template.
-- Silarn 00:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
(Picking up here. In case you missed it, this is now the domain of TaRapedia:Mission project, so sign up if you're interested in missions.)
I see this as two (mostly) separate issues. One is which information we want to record, the other is how we want to present the information. The latter is easy to customize at any time by changing templates, but the former requires in-game collection effort. Furthermore, the latter will most likely require further templates, and possibly scripting, so it reaches beyond this single template. Therefore I suggest we take the discussion (currently all over, including here, item, and several user sections) to TaRapedia talk:Mission project.
For the other matter, what information do we want to collect? There seems to be consensus on collecting rarity and level. Enhancements have some far gone unmentioned. The three options I see are ignore, record number, record details. I see recording the number as possible, but of too limited utility. Recording details is an organization challenge. Nothing is what we have now. However, the rewards do not change often, so if you're already recording everything else, including the enhancements won't be that much extra effort. What do you think? - Dashiva (talk) 12:36, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unlocked missions

Many missions unlock other missions (it becomes a Requirement for that mission) but doesn't mean that that mission is a follow-up. I see follow-ups as a part of a larger mission chain/sequence, and there can only be one follow-up. I think there should be a way to add unlocked missions as well. Any ideas on how it should be implemented? Perhaps add another header, just like 'Mission sequence', and name it 'Unlocked missions'? - Mekwall 06:39, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we should attempt to force too much structure where they may not be any. We can observe which missions automatically pop up, but in many cases missions that don't are also clearly part of a sequence, so the chain metafor doesn't fit. E.g. from Kardash Atta Colony mission list, where A Tale of Two Brothers unlocks Just To Be Certain and Unexpected Guests, and both are required to unlock Key Information.
Well, the example is of instanced missions. And they are of course more related to each other than missions from the battlefield. As I said before, a requirement for a mission doesn't necessary mean that the required missions have anything to do with the story for the mission being unlocked - and I think it's necessary to point that out. Most of the time when you do a story driven chain of missions, there's only one mission at a time - and I think it's good that you know which mission is next in that chain. You get easily confused if other missions show up in the follow-up that doesn't have anything to do (other then that they are being 'unlocked') with the current story. This is at least how I have experienced mission sequences.
My example in this is Stray Cats and The Other Side Of The Coin (as you can see Stray Cats is an requirement to have in mission log, but The Other Side Of The Coin is not a follow-up, since it can only be taken while having that mission). Depending on what you choose, you will later on unlock missions in the AWOL camp that wouldn't otherwise be available. Only one of the missions that gets unlocked have anything to do with the story chain - the others are unlocked because of which side you chose to side with. - Mekwall 18:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, how about if you mark the perceived storyline followup in bold? That will make it stand out as significant, but still allow us to list all unlocked missions. - Dashiva (talk) 18:39, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
That's one way to do it. But it's still hard to know which missions are being story driven and which are not; based on the current system. Lots of missions unlock others, even though they aren't backed with a story. It would be good to have a way to make these story driven missions to stand out in one way or another - and I don't think that bold for follow-ups will suffice. - Mekwall 18:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hide mission sequence box when there isn't one

It would be nice if the mission sequence box would be hidden if there isn't a mission sequence. It's just not needed to show the box if follow-up and requirement have values of null or 'None'. Anyone agree? - Mekwall 06:43, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I personally prefer to see the None so I can tell the difference between "None" and "Info missing", but I don't have too strong feelings about it. - Dashiva (talk) 08:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, how about hiding it when both of the values are 'None', and show "Unknown" if the value is nul. Would you settle for that? - Mekwall 18:34, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
So hide it for confirmed stand-alone missions, and keep for the rest? Sounds good. - Dashiva (talk) 18:50, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Exactly! Then the box don't have to clutter the view with information you really don't need to know. - Mekwall 18:51, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Required level

All missions have a required level, so it would make sense to add this to the template as well. - Mekwall 08:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I've seen it listed in the requirements section, but I agree a separate field could be useful. - Dashiva (talk) 08:45, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, since the requirement field is in the mission sequence section it doesn't really have anything to do with level requirements. I think there should be a field in the general section with the name of "Level required:" or such. - Mekwall 18:59, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Add comment about what's missing below the stub-inclusion

I've encountered this serveral times and think it's great way to inform others (and keep track for yourself) what is missing. It also makes it less tedious to add the missing information since it's easier to find something, if you know what you are looking for. :)
Example: 

{{stub}}
<!-- Missing: objective details, objective loot items and xp reward -->

- Mekwall 18:56, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Template upgrade

I've started work on a new and improved version of the template. It's located at User:Dashiva/Template/Mission (and two subpages). It includes a level parameter (per earlier discussion) and switches out the mission sequence box for stand-alone missions (also per discussion). Other changes include:

  • Removal of time limit, as it's technically based on objectives. The entire mission may not be timed.
  • Added categorization based on planet, continent, zone, instance, rewardgiver and rewardgiver's location mission giver and mission giver's location.
  • Added generic "incomplete template" category for incomplete templates. More specific error categories can be added if wanted.
  • Enforces specifying both mission and reward giver, even if they're the same. This to ensure rewardgiver isn't forgotten and defaults to the wrong person, which I've seen happen more than once.
  • General markup overhaul, removed nested tables etc
  • Wider items box, for those who still want to use it.
  • Moved mission sequence to the top, so items section can be as tall as it wants without hiding other parts.

And maybe some stuff I forgot to mention. You can test by replacing Mission with User:Dashiva/Template/Mission in any existing mission article (just remember to preview and not submit). - Dashiva (talk) 01:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Dashiva, great work! 1) I have one question about mission levels: I've been running through the Tabula Rasa maps with my level 4 character and noticed a few missions still available to me:
I will also try to check them with my level 3 character (not sure how I was able to finish Bootcamp not being on level 4), but I'm not sure which level requirement should be reported for these missions.
2) Another question goes to location categorization: I suggest categorizing the missions by mission giver location because it will allow players to check if they got all available missions in one area. It stupid to return back for one mission, because some reward giver was in another zone.
→ Zarevak 13:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The automatic bump to level 4 only happens if you have Bootcamp Bypass active. If you ignore that mission, it is possible to finish bootcamp with level 3 and 8306/13500 XP. This is from completing all the missions and killing only the dissector and collector. It was an interesting challenge. Image:smiley.gif
As for the level parameter, I'm not really sure which way is the best. There are three scenarios to handle:
  • Missions where we know the exact level requirement, by having obtained the mission at one level and seeing the "mission unavailable" mission icon at the level before. For this one, I expect the best format is the level, and a HTML comment noting that the preceding level was confirmed as too low.
  • Missions where we do not know the exact level requirement yet. We have upper (could be 50) and lower (could be 1) bounds, but it hasn't been tightened to a single value yet. In this case the visible text needs to either include both values, or include the lowest known valid level and a notice saying this may not be the minimum. This to ensure people know when to update. Not sure how to present this.
  • Missions where we cannot know the lower bound. This is mainly bootcamp, and missions you can obtain as a level 3 outside bootcamp. These could have a level limit in the range 1-3, but in practice they don't have a limit. We could say "None", or we could treat it as the previous case with lower bound 1 and upper bound 3.
The reward giver reference was an error on my part, the template actually uses mission giver.
Another thing is that we should nail down when the "mission unavailable" icon appears. It's probably a fixed number of levels below, but it could potentially be a percentage or some other black magic. - Dashiva (talk) 02:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
8306XP? You are good Image:smiley.gif Back to the mission level issue:
These missions are available on level 3 without turning in the Moving Up to the Big League:
And these are NOT available either because of level 3 OR because not turning in the last mission:
I haven't checked the Descent Targets of Opportunity mission yet.
I suggest using two values: highest level the mission is not available yet and lowest level the mission is available. When the two values meet we have the minimal level required for the mission Image:trsmiley.png One problem though: Users could update the mission not yet available level to improper value not noticing another requirements not being met.
Thinking about it, do we need level requirements for mission? Isn't recommended level better information for the users? Why would someone run to Descent just to get available Descent Targets of Opportunity mission when he is not able to finish it until level 48 or so.
→ Zarevak 11:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New template added

I have instated the new mission template. If you encounter bugs or weird displays, go ahead and report them here. Comments on the layout and styling are of course also welcome. - Dashiva (talk) 00:20, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

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