TaRapedia talk:Mission project

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[edit] Mission rewards

We need to decide how these should be presented. Ideas floating around include coloring based on rarity and tooltips of various types. - Dashiva (talk) 12:37, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

First I want to link all the ideas floating around as a reference for the discussion:

• User:Zarevak/Sandbox - basic reproduction of ingame item tooltips. The header should have gradient, but mediawiki doesn't allow image backgrounds in style parameter...
• User:Mekwall/Sandbox - item link background coloring based on rarity. Mekwall tried to add background as well but encountered the same security problem.

Secondly I'm responding to discussion about Mission rewards on Template talk:Mission:

Basic problem is we cannot have article for each item (like wowwiki has for items in WoW) and use it as source of data, because each item is combination of base type (this also defines level, rarity, damage type, armor version/icon), main modification (Voltrox, ...) and other modifications.

We have these base item categories each requiring their set of values to be held:

• Weapons
• Armor
• Consumables (Ammo, Grenades, Armor Paints, ...)
• Schematics/Modifications
• Ingredients/Parts/??? better name ???
• Mission items (includes Clone Credits and Control point tokens)
• Junk

For each item reward we've decided to record:

• Item name (with damage type and Class)
• Item icon
• Main modification name
• Item count
• Quality/Rarity
• Minimum required level

Other information is still in the talks:

• Weapon damage, Weapon melee damage
• Armor value, Armor regeneration
• Modifications and their levels and values
• Skill requirement
• Ammo type
• Range and range type (direct, cone, radial)
• Trading and Usage flags (Not Tradeable, Not Sellable, Unique, ...)

Adding all this information to the itemlink ({{Icon/Weapon|....}}) template will probably become messy and hard to maintain, but once the data is collected we can do magic with it ;-)

→ Zarevak 13:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

For the record, I have started recording the additional info with parameters rarity=blue|purple|green and level=number. This is just to get the info down for later use, not necessarily the final template format. - Dashiva (talk) 17:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Ouch, how I hate the rarity word and color parameter values (I prefer the word quality). I have to admit the Military Surplus is using the word Rarity, but the values are: Junk, Normal, Modified, Experimental and Prototype.

I'm against color parameter values because I don't want to see others say I have Purple Phasing Machine Gun. I'd like to see them say I have Prototype of Phasing Machine Gun. Colors can change (and were changed during beta at least once) and someone can write different color names eg.: violet instead of purple.

The Military Surplus is missing the red value I named Special on the second talk page. This has yet to be discussed.

My proposal: If there is no reason for color-based parameter values let's use the game terms for quality/rarity.

→ Zarevak 20:06, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

As I said, it's just for recording the data, the parameters are not final. But for what it's worth, people do call them purple, blue, etc (even the official RSS feeds use it), and the colors do designate rarity in practice. It might be a losing battle. - Dashiva (talk) 21:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I always hoped for the Tabula Rasa to be something more then just "the another MMO with rare and epic drops"... I'm not part of Mission project (planning to start the Image and/or Location project) so it's your decision how to distinguish item rewards rarity. It's true the colors are easier for the people to remember. You just have to decide how to name the Normal color: Gray/Grey and how to name Junk: White? Recent change to Modification#Notes uses colors as well but without solving the Gray/Grey issue.

→ Zarevak 21:59, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Mission rewards are problematic enough that I don't see it being resolved any time soon. However, even if we choose to use color names for the parameters, I doubt we'll ever see junk or normal items as rewards. I can't even recall seeing a green. And we won't display the parameter values to the public, so we do have the option of using rarity names for the parameters, should we choose to. For now I just focus on recording the data. - Dashiva (talk) 22:19, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

There's a huge issue when it comes to data collection. Some weapons, with the exact same rarity and the exact same modification name, still have different modifications on them (I have these items in my backpack, 2 x Prototype Vextronics Incendiary Blade lvl36 - with different modifications). So this can't be 'calculated' based on a chart. So, it will be a real mess to use the wiki to build the database. I have no clue about how many different styles of modifications Vextronics can have, and if we're going to fetch data from a chart in the wiki we have to specify some kind of hidden variable in the link so we can provide the correct data.

Screenshot:

- Mekwall 19:10, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Vextronics covers all kinds of reduce resist, so eight in total, times five for enhancement levels, and then the other enhancements on top. But I don't think the idea was to use the item name to produce data, but rather some kind of key, e.g. "Mission name - Reward #1" or just a number. - Dashiva (talk) 19:26, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, not only reduce resists since the left one has a regen armor bonus as well... I mean, it will need a pretty huge chart. I don't think it's doable in the wiki tbh. I think you need to work directly against the database for that. - Mekwall 19:36, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The Vextronics is name for only one of the modification (the main one). Other modifications are completely unrelated to the name. If the information in Modification article is correct then all the Prototype items can contain up to 9 different modifications. Each being level 1 to level 5...

The only solution I see is to add ModificationX parameters (the format is open to discussion).

{{Icon/Weapon|Vextronics|Incendiary|Blade|rarity=purple|level=36 |modification1=[4] Reduce Resist: Physical by -25 for 5 sec |modification2=[4] Reduce Resist: Fire by -25 for 5 sec |modification3=[3] Regen Armor: +30% |modification4=[2] Reduce Resist: Laser by -15 for 5 sec }} = Vextronics Incendiary Blade

→ Zarevak 21:11, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this is the best way to do it. And if you don't enter any mod. info it will just show 'Modification bonuses unknown' or something like that on the tooltip. I'll start to use this format from now on, just to track the vars. Now all we need is a functional template. Check It Came From Erdas on how I did it (I used mod1 -> mod4, shorter to type). Update: I just realized it would be hell of a lot easier to have a second template for adding the mod info...

Example:

{{Icon/Weapon
|Vextronics|Incendiary|Blade
|rarity=purple|level=36
|mod1={{Mod|4|Reduce Resist: Physical}}
|mod2={{Mod|4|Reduce Resist: Fire}}
|mod3={{Mod|3|Regen Armor}}
|mod4={{Mod|3|Reduce Resist: Laser}}
}}

If there's someway to calculate the bonuses given that is, otherwise you have to add that as well, or sending the level to the mod template to help with calculation. What do you think?

Another example without parameters:

{{Icon/Weapon
|Vextronics|Incendiary|Blade
|purple|36
|{{Mod|4|Reduce Resist: Physical}}
|{{Mod|4|Reduce Resist: Fire}}
|{{Mod|3|Regen Armor}}
|{{Mod|3|Reduce Resist: Laser}}
}}

- Mekwall 00:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

It would be great to use {{Mod}} template, but there is problem with absolute value modifications: Total Armor, Health, attributes, ...? I haven't found a way how to calculate them.

• For the reduce resist modifications the calculation seems to be: [{LEVEL}] Reduce Resist: Fire by -{5+LEVEL*5} for 5 sec
• For resist modifications the calculation seems to be: [{LEVEL}] Resist: Laser {LEVEL*2}%
  • But the items you receive during bootcamp doesn't follow this - they have level 5 modifications and +15% resist values.
• Fore regen modifications the calculation seems to be: [{LEVEL}] Regen Armor: +{LEVEL*10}%

→ Zarevak 04:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Furthermore, some mods are based on the item level. Armor bonus is the main one that comes to mind. A level 20 armor piece with a level 4 mod might have something like +200 armor while a level 50 armor piece with a level 4 mod has over +1000.

I was trying to find a way to calculate armor values based solely on armor type, part. and level. But the basic problem is that it's all in a table. The best formula I could come up with was off by minute but varying amounts that seemed unrelated to any sort of linear pattern.

Silarn 07:29, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

We could always allow the Mod template to allow the lasta parameter to override the values that are calculated. Since there doesn't seem to be many items that don't follow the calculation rules I think this is the best way to go. So, anyone up for the task?

→ Mekwall 13:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reward changes in 1.4

I've just read the Patch Notes for upcoming 1.4 version and it mentions:

1. Purples have been removed from mission rewards; after 1.4 you will see only Green items available through Shared missions and Blue items available through Instance missions.
2. Bootcamp – The enhancement value of all mission rewards in Bootcamp have been modified slightly to be more in balance with the rest of the game. This will not change items currently in possession by players.
3. 855 missions have had their rewards re-evaluated and replaced with new items. Items previously obtained through these missions will not be changed, but will no longer be available to future players.

This means:

1. Developers are mixing colors with quality in the same document :( (eg. purple vs. prototype)
2. Mod value calculations should become easier if Bootcamp rewards will follow other items in the game. I also like the idea of possible optional argument with fixed value as suggested by Mekwall.
3. All the recorded mission rewards will have to be rerecorded :'(

→ Zarevak 22:58, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I was also going to comment this, but my conclusions were a bit different. Mission rewards have been changed significantly two versions in a row now, and they are signficantly less useful now (mostly blue, some green, no purple). The utility of reward information was already dubious, and with the new developments they simply can't justify the work in my eyes. Mission-related rewards (e.g. a keycard) and special items (e.g. a completely blank green weapon) should of course be mentioned, but who's going to seek out a mission just to obtain a green weapon when they could get purples instead?

That's not to say we should necessarily kill off the entire reward section, but considering it's easily the most strenuous part of creating mission pages, I can easily see it dying out even if left in. - Dashiva (talk) 00:27, 19 January 2008 (UTC)